About the Interviewer:
Shubham Bansal is a 4th year HBA student at Ivey Business School, who immigrated to Canada in 2017 to pursue his undergraduate studies. He has completed several work terms in real estate investments and property management including at Sunray Group and Campus Living Centres and aspires to pursue a full-time career in this industry after graduation.
How have you been spending your downtime during lockdown?
Trying to stay active, we are fortunate to have a gym in our office and prior to COVID we did a boot camp every Friday. Through COVID, I rented a spin bike from Ride Cycle Club, a tenant in our portfolio and have participated in the online classes. Other than that, I have taken on some home improvement projects and finally, after a long week, it’s nice to unwind with a bit of red wine!
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What did the Hullmark holiday party look like this year?
We did a virtual escape room through Casa Loma. It had several different puzzles, and we broke out into teams to solve them. Though my team didn’t win, it was a fun digital event that brought everyone together.
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What are you most looking forward to in 2021?
On the personal side, my wife is pregnant with our first child and due in February. This has also driven some of the home improvement projects in terms of getting things ready for the new member of the family.
On the professional side and maybe also personally, I think there is going to be a lot of opportunities created due to the rapid change we have been experiencing over the last nine months or so. It could be new trends in real estate, technology, or even just in the way we live our day to day lives.
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Can you tell us about what it was like starting your real estate career in 2009, at the tail end of the global financial crisis? What drew you to real estate?
I started in 2009 in the Commercial Real Estate Credit Group at TD Bank, where we did construction and development loans for clients across the GTA. Being Canadian-focused, we were very fortunate because Canada held up well compared to the US. When I started at the tail end of the crisis, there was a heightened focus on risk. It was really relationship-focused lending, the bank wasn’t necessarily looking to take on many new clients. The longstanding nature of those relationships stuck with me throughout my career and is one of the most important of lessons I learned from being in that business. What followed though was a big bull run in the Toronto real estate market and what I think is important to keep in mind during these challenging times, is that they are typically followed by a period of opportunity and growth. When times are good, you think they’ll never end and when times are bad you think they’ll never end, but they do.
Answering your second part of the question, my grandfather was an architect, and my father was in the real estate business. So, a lot of it was probably osmosis! But during my time at school, I was drawn to geography classes and finance classes, which might be a weird mix, but the physicality of geography and theoretical aspect of finance stuck with me. And as I was growing up, I really enjoyed traveling and exploring new places. Thus, real estate seemed like an ideal marriage of my interests, and a good excuse to pursue what I am passionate about.
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You have spent almost equal time in banking and development. What was it like transitioning from service provider to principal? Can you tell us more about your current role?
In banking, I started in commercial lending for construction and development, as I mentioned, and from there, I transitioned to TD Securities Investment Banking doing a combination of investment banking and property brokerage.
On the IB team, I was involved in a wide variety of projects, from equity issuances for an apartment investor in Ireland to single family rentals as an asset class. What I took away was the ability to quickly learn, gain a high degree of familiarity and understand the key trends in a new market.
That said, when I joined Hullmark, it became apparent to me that I lacked an in-depth understanding of real estate from a functional basis, and that’s what I had the opportunity to learn and develop here.
Another key difference is that on the banking-side, you are in the advice business, but you don’t have to do it, but on the principal side, you have to do it. Making those large-scale investment decisions requires conviction and an implementation plan to execute it and I didn’t fully appreciate the difference.
At Hullmark, I oversee the asset management functions for our business which includes leasing, capital investments, financing, and as well as something we call placemaking. Placemaking is how we activate the spaces beyond the primary tenancies and create a program in the clusters we invest in, which is a part of Hullmark’s investment strategy. It involves investing in communities to build a scale that cannot be achieved by investing in individual properties.
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In just over 5 years, you have gone from Associate to Vice President, Asset Management at Hullmark. What are some of the key factors that have contributed to your success? Would you have done anything differently looking back?
I believe it is extremely important to have a positive attitude, a strong work ethic, and a desire to understand the business and how it works. Something that was irreplaceable in my personal growth was the mentorship I received at both firms. I have also been fortunate at Hullmark, as the business has grown quite rapidly in the last five years, which has allowed me to gain a variety and depth of experience.
Looking back in time, I think I would have taken a bit more risk. When you’re young in your career, there are certain opportunities where you could put even a small amount of money at risk in an idea where you have some conviction. Over the long run, those kinds of small investments, whether in real estate or otherwise, could pay off in material ways. So just moving up that risk spectrum is something that looking back I would have done.
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What is the most interesting project that you have worked on?
In 2015, Hullmark entered into a joint venture with OCAD University to purchase 230 & 240 Richmond Street West, a 120,000 sq.ft. office building downtown, and we secured WeWork as the joint anchor tenant. It was a fantastic brick and beam building with great physical attributes that we took fully back to base and rebuilt into a modern office. Despite various structural challenges, the final product was very impressive and was the first WeWork that opened in Toronto.
Recently, OCAD expressed a willingness to dispose of its 50% interest, which was successfully marketed with RBC Capital Markets and brought in BentallGreenOak. So over the past five years, the space has been optimized for OCAD as a user, been activated by a new economy tenant in WeWork, has had two different institutional partners. It really has been through quite an extensive five-year life cycle.
In addition to that, we recently completed 80 Atlantic, a 100,000 sq. ft. heavy timber office development in Liberty Village. We are thrilled to welcome Universal Music, Spaces, and Jackman as tenants to our building. For me, this project defines everything I love about real estate. It’s got architecture, amazing users, great physical characteristics, and it is in a unique area of the city that’s undergoing a lot of change.
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What do you think are some of the long-term implications of the pandemic on Hullmark’s strategy?
It’s a question mark for sure but some of the things I’m thinking about on the office side are whether there will be changes in the type of services occupiers are looking for, particularly a desire for shorter term, more flexible space to complement their traditional office footprint. I am not sure if people will be back in offices full-time like pre-COVID but I am very confident that they will want to go into spaces other than their homes, and that well-located spaces are going to outperform in the long run. At Hullmark, we have been a big proponent of co-working and flex spaces; we have WeWork, Spaces, Regus, and IQ Office Suites as tenants and I’m optimistic about the value that business model will provide to office users in addition to the traditional office space occupiers.
I remain confident in our thesis to invest in communities where people live, work, and play, like King West. They have been resilient to the impacts throughout the pandemic, primarily because people are there 24/7.
Lastly, we’re seeing an evolution in the food space and last mile with ghost kitchens, where one can distribute products without a traditional storefront. That’s definitely coming to the urban environment and it will be interesting to see the logistical impacts on our portfolio.
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Do you have any advice for new graduates looking for a position in the current environment?
You need to stick with the industry or job that interests you and continue to connect with people outside of the interview process. Make meaningful connections to learn more and assess where you want to be.
Be patient, you’re not always going to get it on the first shot. When you stick with something, you’re going to see results and you’ll learn a lot about yourself through putting yourself out there.
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The job market is extremely competitive, now more than ever. In your opinion, how much will the first job out of school define one’s career?
I don’t think that the first job is a make-or-break moment. I think what makes or breaks someone’s career is that individual’s attitude and their relationship with peers in the industry. It is very important to be open to different experiences and if you find a role with good people, that can have a big impact. Ultimately, it depends on the individual and how they are going to use that opportunity.
